Is that mechanical royalty money you also retrieve? I’ve heard great things about them from Pete Byrne of Naked Eyes. I’ve been reading all of these comments, and responses. I joined Songtrust.. After reading on how much I paid the 100$’s and thought the 15% for there take was o.k. Logging into ASCAP now, I see that my publishing company is listed, and Songtrust as an administrator. I am new to music publishing. There’s a catch though: TuneCore requires that you work with them exclusively for licensing. Or is Songtrust the go to? I wrote this article almost three years ago and haven’t looked into it since. As for splits and direct deposit, you’ll need to ask them directly. Songtrust is a publishing administration company. Imagine my shock when I logged in a few months later and saw a NEGATIVE BALANCE of $305.05!!!!!!!!! . Submitting tracks to music library doesn’t require an aggregator. I would think that someone that’s planning on submitting numerous tracks to music libraries would want to go with Distrokid, because if you’re banging out 1-2 tracks a week, that would really get costly with CD Baby and/or TuneCore. You may know this by now, but DistroKid can do this for you. Well, from your PRO or your admin publisher. I tried out DistroKid recently, thinking $20 per year was a great value. Click here to login, The ability to reply to and create new discussions, Access to members-only giveaways & competitions, Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As, Access to members-only sub forum discussions, Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio, Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free. A publishing administrator, such as Songtrust, has direct relationships with these various pay sources throughout the world (including HFA, MRI, and MediaNet) which allows us to register your songs globally and collect any royalties generated within those territories. My pleasure! At present the royalties are paid out by market share but we hope to move this to a play by play basis as soon as possible(this is up to Facebook). How will I know I’m collecting the royalties that I deserve? I’m curious about that myself! Here’s to everyone’s success. Brian Hazard is a recording artist with over twenty years of experience promoting eleven Color Theory albums, and head mastering engineer and owner of Resonance Mastering in Huntington Beach, California. But thanks for the advice about submitting tracks directly with the library. Luckily, Songtrust has a network of these performing rights organisations (PROs) in North America, or collective management organisations (CMOs) in Europe. They've got a weird stipulation "We have a 1-year minimum term. This, for me, is a deal breaker because I expect Songtrust to be passive, having so many other songwriters. It would be lovely if Songtrust offered better and alternative payment options for non-US residents using their services. Thank you. They do a great job of making themselves known. Do me and my group members register with a PRO under the collective name or do we just run individual accounts and split percentages when we work togther?? On top of that Songtrust has a higher setup fee of 100$ (25$ higher than tunecore), a 15% cut (tunecore 10% & 20% for active) and while it seems with Songtrust you can only submit a maximum of 15 songs for the setup fee. You’re absolutely right. that is not what I understand to be the case and that is why they promote their CD Baby Pro service. Thanks for all the info. Why Songtrust; Who Uses Songtrust. Thanks for clarifying. As I understand it…You can register with a PRO as publisher and writer(performance royalties). Yeah, it’s confusing stuff. they would be kind of like my internet police preventing other youtube/soundcloud etc. I highly recommend reading The Song Machine if you haven’t already: https://amzn.to/2flvGBI. Your email address will not be published. I believe there are still problems for the songwriter. It has been SO easy to use and I really like the ‘pay once’ model – even though it’s a bit more up-front. Artist definitely come out on top. If I were you, I’d wait until you’re more established to bother with publishing administration. Cd Baby conspired in 2010 to change my artist name and when I refused, they proceeded without my permission to change my artist name on several albums going back to early 1990’s. My goal for this article is to share my experience with Songtrust, and help you decide if it’s for you, without getting into the weeds. I am not a musican – just a writer. The tradeoff is it’s 15% commission vs 9% for CD Baby. So, now that you’ve got a look at the PRO landscape, the big question is: which is the best? You’re right, you need a good amount of listeners to make a lot of this worthwhile. Many years ago, I saw a post on the Songtrust blog, breaking down the various royalties Spotify pays to songwriters. Any chance that will be working again? Launched: 1939 That depends. Can I Join if I Am Already a Member of the Harry Fox Agency (HFA)? I have released a few songs, and have several more in the pipeline. Rumblefish does that too, but is mainly a music library that will license your music for super cheap. I don’t bother with YouTube monetization. Secondly i am in a music group and also a solo artist (for eg. So, that’s another instance where a publishing admin would be important, right? I’ve added both ISRC’s to our licensing document we send over monthly to HFA to make sure those works get licensed and paid out ASAP.”. Are you saying that I can go out and get a publishing deal and that publisher would then show up on ASCAP as my 50% partner and then Songtrust would just be there but not receiving 50% but would then be listed as my “admin publisher”? If you find out that’s not the case, please let me know! What’s the difference in me going with Songtrust when I am using CD Baby Pro because aren’t they affiliated? Can you explain the difference between Songtrust, Audiam, AdRev, and Rumblefish? (I acknowledge you aren’t a lawyer btw!!). They have got a way of making a lot of money. You have been great help. They are still yet to get back to me but thanks again anyways. Is there something i have to do first? You’ve got 170 YouTube subscribers and 115 monthly listeners on Spotify. Did you know that each time your song is streamed, it generates a mechanical royalty that is not paid through your distributor? We signed up with AWAL last year and really like their whole operation on balance. They don’t do what Songtrust does. There are yet more details to evaluate, no? Thanks for the kind words Joni! I do really appreciate this dialog Brian . I am not making any money or collecting any royalty but i know my song are definitely being downloaded and streamed online. I am literally loving these comments and your replies at my local Starbucks getting a plethora of knowledge I didn’t know. To my knowledge, CD Baby and other Aggregators only allow for “1” account holder on a song & only provides that one Account Holder with revenue payments and sales data. As a publishing administrator, we're authorized to register your works and collect money on your behalf - you still own and control 100% of your copyright. They offer blanket music licenses to busi… Rumblefish (which I don’t think I can join on my own) does youtube content ID, but I think they do many other microsync things too. Sorry I’m a bit of a cynic. thanks everyone for the input, helps a lot. It looks like there is an option for HFA to collect outside of the US on your behalf, but that would still leave uncollected mechanical royalties from sources like Pandora and Soundcloud, etc. I’ve been wondering how TuneCore Publishing compares to Songtrust, and the fact that you’re going through the hassle of moving your catalog over says a lot. Am I correct in understanding that TuneCore and CDBabyPro both digitally distribute your music (ie: putting it on iTunes, Spotify, etc) as well as collect international royalties, while Songtrust only collects the international royalties but leaves distributing the music up to the artist? Am I correct? I’ve written about Audiam and AdRev before, and decided it wasn’t worth bothering. Since they’re not your songs, IMHO that’s even less an issue! You can’t even specify a release date on their $20/year plan! My guess is you don’t have your own publishing company, so it just shows Songtrust. Wow, thank you so much for writing this article! I would’ve thought the code would’ve dried up by now. Thanks. My guess is there’s no difference because they all use the same ContentID system through YouTube. I was pretty disappointed! I was actually having a really good month on Spotify when they were reviewing my application, which I hoped would work in my favor. If so, have you tried them? And then once I paid, I found out they charge $2 per MONTH to administer cover songs. My understanding is that Songtrust works through HFA, and that HFA doesn’t work directly with artists. I figured that since I’d earned a few hundred bucks from Spotify via CD Baby, the mechanical royalties Songtrust would collect for me would cover the cost of signing up. In 2009 CD Baby was sold and never recovered from their original innocence. Each territory throughout the world has a performance and mechanical agency/society that collects royalties within that area. I’ve nagged them a few times over the years and always gotten a prompt response, usually through the pop-up on the site. I’m trying to decide between sentric and songtrust. Why release through both CD Baby and TuneCore? Creators Songwriters, producers and creators collect royalties globally from your songs while keeping 100 percent of the rights. For me, setting up a publishing company was super easy. They are collecting your publishing, so that makes sense. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I have tried to sign up with “Songtrust”. I’m lucky to see $10 a quarter these days. CD Baby…The past was better than the present. The 67 cents is when someone downloads, as oppose to streams, one of your tracks. AFAIK, you own the copyright worldwide the minute you put your work in tangible form. I see two things that I seem to missing but I was hoping you could clarify. Best, , but want to make sure all your international royalties are being credited. The site stated NOTHING about charging $10 per song. It is unique in that it's controlled entirely by the composers, writers, and music publishers that make up its membership. I hope this is accurate, and that Brian or someone will confirm or clarify if not. You only pay once and your release is up forever. Well, it’s not so simple: for one thing, since SESAC is invitation-only, the choice is really between BMI and ASCAP, and … I saw the discount, and that made taking this decision much easier Thanks for that! The first thing that most young songwriters in the US hear is “you need to sign up for ASCAP or BMI to make sure you get your songwriter royalties.” I have to hand it to ASCAP and BMI’s PR departments. BMI vs ASCAP vs SESAC: which one is for you? Fortunately, Songtrust more than made up for it by collecting an additional $322 for me that I wouldn’t have otherwise received: $73 in international performance royalties; $212 in US mechanical royalties; $27 in international mechanical royalties Creators Songwriters, producers and creators collect royalties globally from your songs while keeping 100 percent of the rights. You also retain the right to collect the sync license fees from those licenses.” SongTrust vs ASCAP/BMI/SESAC Can someone please explain what is difference of using a resource like Songtrust vs Direct registration with the P.R.O.'s. Tunecore spotify playlist : tunecore vs songtrust. This is separate from your Payoneer account and Songtrust, and must be done in your ASCAP account. Songtrust, will collect overseas stuff so I’ll be signing up with them as well. Thanks for sharing your experience with DistroKid. I wrote an article comparing Audiam and AdRev awhile back, and concluded the pennies aren’t worth the hassle. Yes, definitely let us know how you like it! ASCAP, BMI, SESAC). Transferring titles using our transfer tool does not affect your credit count. When I briefly tried Distrokid, I was frustrated with extra costs I didn’t foresee (scheduling a release date, cover songs), so I bailed out and got a refund. I’m hoping someone from Songtrust will jump in, but at first blush, I don’t see how you your situation is different than mine. There are quite a few articles related to Harry Fox in the Songtrust Help Center, and it wouldn’t surprise me if the answer were buried in one of them! Let me just say thank you Brian for this informative and detailed article! Since receiving this I replied immediately requesting confirmation of my membership cancellation. If you only have a release or two, and have no plans to ever switch distributors, CD Baby Pro might be a better option for you. I believe they have targeted the independent singer/songwriter that is still trying to make it to the big time. I’m trying to decide between the norwegian based indigoboom.no and Distrokid. So question one: Is it possible to claim my royalties for works as old as 2014?? . I’ve included a copy below. Thanks for the recommendation Nicole! Unless you mean TuneCore is handling digital distribution, and you also put it on the CD Baby store. I’ve been reading like crazy about this to make up mind what I should do. SongTrust vs ASCAP/BMI/SESAC Can someone please explain what is difference of using a resource like Songtrust vs Direct registration with the P.R.O.'s. Yes and no respectively! If you sign up with Songtrust directly, your entire catalogue is covered. that’s a little misleading. It’s only recently I’ve looked into the mechanical royalties side and realised Distrokid don’t have a pro upgrade. . Adrev just does youtube content id for songs and videos i believe, but they are not a publishing admin, right. I’ve been with them since the very beginning (Derek actually handled CD sales on my site pre-CD Baby) and they’ve generally been great. Why Songtrust; Who Uses Songtrust. As a newbie wanting to publish some lyrics I have been writing for some time but never yet published, where should I start. Songtrust is an additive service to being registered with ASCAP. You should check your dashboard and make sure the songs actually get registered, and review your royalty statements. I’ll edit the article to make that clear right now. It’s hard to trust a “review” where you make money if people sign up to them through your link. Most of the people in this forum write music specifically for TV and Film where there is no mechanical royalties. Anyway, I think I have recorded loads of far more engaging music, all sat on a hard drive, and I am going to have a shot at getting work as a staff writer. As to whether or not it’s a good idea, I suppose the same guidelines apply. I will pitch them some of my unreleased demos, which are instrumentals. https://help.songtrust.com/knowledge, Question here? We act as a publishing administrator for our clients, meaning we can register songs and collect royalties on their behalf without owning any percentage of their copyrights. I’d say unless you have 10K or more monthly listeners on Spotify, it will take a long time to recoup the $100 investment. Unless you’re getting a lot of streams, don’t expect those mechanical royalties to add up to much. However it seems the same counts for Songtrust, why isn’t this mentioned: You need a publishing administrator like Songtrust to collect it. If you browse through my articles, you’ll find plenty of lukewarm to mildly negative reviews with affiliate links. As far as I know, CD Baby doesn’t allow you to set iTunes pricing at $1.29. As you can see, Songtrust collected plenty for me that I wouldn’t have otherwise received. Of course, that’s only looking at digital distribution. I've contacted CS, so far nothing.I feel completely screwed! My understanding is, as you described, that CD Baby collects the domestic mechanical royalty. Hi Brian, I’ve been a full time composer / producer for TV & Radio and a BMI member for over 20 years. Also worth noting that 150k streams is really from 2019 on, as this is when new rates are kicking in from the copyright royalty board decision. The tone I believe has a lot to do with why people listen. It even says, “sale” on my accounting page but I click on the sale and it takes my to the “details” and it says it’s a “stream”. Songtrust currently offers direct affiliation to ASCAP, BMI for U.S. writers and SOCAN for Canadian and non-U.S. writers. Also, he says that in the US the aggregator (like CD baby) pays the mechanical royalty. Why Songtrust; Who Uses Songtrust. Hope you don’t mind, I edited down your comment to remove the form text. I’m not sure non-Premier artists can collect royalties, except through Repost, which SoundCloud just bought, so…. Great info. Anderson.Paak being a solo artist but He and producer Knxwledge are a duo known as NXWORRIES). I did not have the knowledge of royalties some years back so had no contracts/split sheets signed. I’d also like to know if CDBaby allows you to charge 1,29$ per iTunes download as with Tunecore. But, I’m working with an artist who’s relatively small, but growing over time. Why Songtrust; Who Uses Songtrust. I wouldn’t sign up with Songtrust just yet. Creators Songwriters, producers and creators collect royalties globally from your songs while keeping 100 percent of the rights. I have read you telling a few people that they shouldn’t be in a rush to attain a publishing admin until they create a fan base and have actual royalties to collect internationally. I’m a member of the norwegian PRO Tono (www.tono.no). Step 1 : Sign Up For Direct Deposit with ASCAP Direct deposit is a requirement to submit set lists to ASCAP. If you’ve racked up 150K streams of your music (across all platforms), you should probably join Songtrust. I have also created my own publishing company, but would like to know what the disadvantages/advantages are with registering my own publishing company with BMI and with a publishing admin at the same time ? This means I cannot work with another song plugging company (who may be really passionate about me) to pitch my music to TV shows, movies and commercials. As for all the “grabbing hands,” it really depends on how you look at it. At least not right now. If you are close to that number, growing, or have high expectations around your next project I suggest pulling the trigger sooner than later so that you can increase your long term cashflow and ensure the royalties don’t fall into the black box. Check it out under the “What Songtrust collected” heading in the article. Also, I paid big bucks for radio promotion across France and Italy way back in 2000, putting my songs in regular rotation on over 40 commercial stations. A little odd to me. I’m getting confused at the second paragraph of the article. Hence why I created a Songtrust account. The author asks if it’s worth joining Songtrust or just using a PRO only. https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-free-zone-shoot-the-breeze/1207709-spotify-notice-intent-obtain-compulsory-license.html I wasn’t attached to a PRO yet (am getting signed with ASCAP through SongTrust now) but moving forward should i register with the PRO first then import that into SongTrust to avoid that fee? #peace. It’s not like there’s any real competition in the space. Some instrumental I think from watching you on YouTube.com. The trade-off is that you’re giving up 15% (our commission) of your royalties in exchange for direct global registration to +50 pay sources with the convenience of only entering your song information once. Also, would Songtrust collect from TikTok? They also collect mechanical royalties which ASCAP, BMI, etc. The 20% discount is still valid. Was planning on using Songtrust (and in the process join ASCAP so as to avoid creating a vanity publishing company), but just realized that this might not distribute as well. The TAXI and Songhunters submission fees are more of a disincentive than anything, to stop people from sending in anything and everything. It doesn’t add up. What's the Difference Between Songtrust and Audiam? Imagine my shock when I logged in a few months later and saw a NEGATIVE BALANCE of $305.05!!!!!!!!! Are you considering posting your lyrics online, and worried about them being stolen? You can hold off even setting up a publishing company until you’ve got royalties to collect, like a big sync placement. For me now at my age, 72, and have been doing the singer/songwriter thing for a long time and also the coffee house scene for a long time I now play my acoustic guitar and sing for my own enjoyment. I know that HFA does have free non-affiliated accounts but I’m trying to better understand which firm is better on the global scale, as I’ve read that HFA is primarily more focused on North American royalty collections. Songtrust collects the publisher's share for writers and publishers, which opts you into global and direct collection of performance and mechanical royalties. ; Creator Reps Managers and lawyers connect with the most extensive, accessible publishing network in the industry. I enjoy the freedom to let people use my music in their videos without hassle, and I can monitor usage of my music through my YouTube Studio dashboard. I see lots of people getting into the industry and so many people (myself included) don’t know anything about PROs, ISRCs, publishing, licensing etc. ; Creator Reps Managers and lawyers connect with the most extensive, accessible publishing network in the industry. Always make sure to reference your agreements for clarification and ensure you have split sheets filled out to get your ownership stake in writing. It Gets Worse. You put me onto Audiokite and said if folks listened to a demo for 2.40, that was quite encourageing! Cool, thanks for your info, Brian. Maybe not all of it? Thanks for this candid, well-written article. If they were your songs, that wouldn’t be an issue. I see my tracks are all $0.99. That said, I agree 100% that you can’t just submit the tracks and trust that everything will work out. So I am in the process of releasing a single. If Songtrust is representing a writer as the writer’s administrative publisher, how did Songtrust not know about the 24K on Spotify and subsequently pay him? The thing on my cdbaby account summary sometimes says “a sale” but if you click on the details it’s shows a “stream”. In the way of trying to make a buck. Even if the numbers didn’t work out in my favor, I’d still be glad I went with Songtrust. We register your songs globally and collect on your behalf. I understood that SongTrust collected royalties far beyond what a PRO would do, so I thought I needed to be with both. Plus they also have an internal team that helps with getting on playlists, also at no cost. You can register for Songtrust (or any publisher, to handle your publishing). Now for the next decision – Distrokid vs CD Baby (standard)…. Worse, they can get a copyright claim after you told them it was okay to use the track. The way I read your description is that your payments are indeed behind thanks to HFA, and your cancellation prompted Songtrust to turn the screws on them a bit. I am now signed up with Songtrust. Are there any other options I overlooked? I’m told that you can sign up if you’re already affiliated with the PRO in your home area, which in your case is APRA. I have a “Single plan” account (50 songs, $100). I might be wrong, but this seems to be the case. If you need more than 50 credits, we charge 10$ per 10 songs going forward. Spotify, Apple Music, Deezer, Tidal, Amazon, paid $8-9.99/mo services). I wouldn’t bother registering your songs with Songtrust until they’re released. I know this is an older article but still very helpful. I think how far they can go back depends on the PRO, but 6 months is almost certainly safe. No conflict whatsoever. I don’t wanna go through the hassle and $$$ of setting up a LLC vanity company just to collect my publishing. I believe DistroKid allows for writer splits but they do not work with an admin publishing company to collect all of your composition royalties. I use Songtrust and they only collect the Publisher's share of my royalties. ; Businesses Get complete song performance insights and new ways to collect revenue. I believe in CD Baby parlance, a stream is one form of sale. As of this writing, CD Baby doesn’t yet contract with TikTok, so just wondering how to collect from there. That was the plan. My understanding is that you need publishing administration to collect mechanical royalties on international Spotify streams. Appreciate the thoughtful analysis. I have a media group. Two forward one back it was for a bit, trying to get the ball rolling. The next year they changed their pricing structure to the current $100 plus 15% commission. I don’t see why it would make any difference one way or the other, but it could very well be I’m missing something obvious! According to my ASCAP statements, the bulk of my royalty streams come from SiriusXM Satellite Radio. Tieran, if you aren’t sure I suggest checking out https://www.songtrust.com/estimate-your-streaming-royalties this will give you a better estimate of your royalties. To be clear, the $10 fee with TuneCore is for a single track, right? Are you okay with not knowing how much you could’ve received? It sure would be easier if it could be handled by the aggregator. I would like to believe that I’m well covered as far as royalty collections. It’s just odd that I always got paid once a year from cdbaby, going over 100 dollars including having many “downloads”. Nothing wrong with that, but again… what are you expecting Songtrust to do? I wouldn’t worry about it. But royalties never appear like magic. I’d love any advice in this regard. They only charge you to register songs if you're having them register the songs for you but you can still register your songs with ASCAP and just synch it with Songtrust for free. Songtrust use a payment company called payoneer to handle payments, and charge 2% for transferring into a GBP UK account from America! I don’t have a publisher, so that portion is getting left on the table for now. If someone is streaming your song on Spotify in the UK, your royalties are sent to the local societies in that region, which would be PRS & MCPS. 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